1. Vinokourov
2. Valverde
3. Leipheimer (more of a hope, but he does have a good team)

PJ

I think you can cross Vinokourov off the list, I don't think he will be able to recover from todays crash, and between Kloden's early crash and Vinokourov's, Team AST basically imploded today.

Team Discovery, however has 6 riders in the top 32, and are just patiently waiting in the shadows to pounce when the opportunity presents itself.

You have to love these Tour De France recap comments after Stage 5 by Bob Roll of the Versus team, [quote:6ff38528d7]"This stage was so exciting and the mountain stages, which begin this weekend, should be absolutely the best racing to be seen in a long, long time... If you don?t watch the stages to come, you must have a screw loose somewhere."[/quote:6ff38528d7]

Ryan

You can cross him off the list, but you would be wrong doing so.
 
[img:7c60f52a7e]http://www.team-pinnacle.org/albums/bc_personal/120x90.png[/img:7c60f52a7e]

Time will tell.

Either way, you can't dispute this years race is exciting. Can't wait to see how this all unfolds.

Ryan

I was wrong. Kloden maybe, Vino will have to wait another year.
 
[img:7c60f52a7e]http://www.team-pinnacle.org/albums/bc_personal/120x90.png[/img:7c60f52a7e]

It will be interesting to see what Kloden can do, he seems to be hanging tough despite a broken bone in his back from a fall he took early on.

Ryan

Today is exactly why you can't count Vino out. I can't wait to see what he does in the Pyrenees.

The real race starts tomorrow.

It is also very nice to see Contador and Leipheimer in the top 5.

-- Ken
 
"If you brake, you don't win." Racer Mario Cipollini

Humm... Contador beats out Rasmussen to take the stage win... does he have the goods to go the distance???

Post Stage 14 GC
1) Rasmussen 0:00
2) Contador 2:23
3) Evans 3:04
4) Leiphiemer 4:29
5) Kloden 4:38

When will they ever learn

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/cycling/wires/07/24/2080.ap.cyc.tour.de.france.vinokourov.1st.ld.0263/index.html[/url]
 
"If you brake, you don't win." Racer Mario Cipollini

I don't believe much coming out of L'Equipe these days after reading some of the articles on them and various doping scandles.

We will have to see what the officials at the Tour have to say on the subject (not that they are any more reliable).

Ryan

Such a sad state of affairs. I was so happy to see him win in the mountains yesterday. I just don't understand why they do it.

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12910.0.html

Well, here it is at the official Tour website: [url]http://www.letour.fr/2007/TDF/LIVE/us/1600/communique.html[/url].

I'm sure there will be a flurry of articles tomorrow about it.

As if that isn't bad enough, Kloden & Kashechkin are gone too, changing the landscape of the GC. Evans will move up, who know what else.

Ryan

My thinking is that the line between performance enhancing training/nutrition and cheating is very hard to pin down. Elite athletes are always on the lookout for a competitive advantage. If you do not believe this, just read Ken's new tagline quote from Mario Cipollini ... Who was renown for not putting his hands any near the brake levers during a sprint because that would indicate his willingness to brake. Yes ... he won a lot of races ... and Yes ... he crashed quite a bit as well!!! Elite athletes also put a lot of faith into the *professionals* responsible for their training and health.

Here is my little survey about blood doping. I have tried to put the activities in a progression that I think moves from the obviously fair to obviously cheating ... but there are some problems along the way. Which would you consider cheating?

1. Train more consistantly
2. Adjust your diet to better fuel your body
3. Buy better equipment
4. Hire a cycling coach
5. Hire a nutritionalist
6. Have a medical procedure to improve blood flow through your circularitory system (FYI - I have a congenital condition whereby a significant precentage of my blood leaks between my ventricles without going through my lungs)
7. Ingest large doses of caffene and/or other *natural substances*
8. Take over the counter medications like asprin and advil
9. Train at altitude
10. Train at sea level but recover at altitude
11. Train at sea level but sleep in a hypobaric chamber (to simulate recovery at altitude)
12. Consume medication that stimulates your body to produce more red blood cells (in effect, simulating 11)
13. Remove your own blood, centrifuge it to remove red blood cells, and reinject them
14. Inject red blood cells from someone else

Well I wouldn't know the first thing about what is right, legal, etc but based on your list Chris I would say 1-5 & 9-11 are fair game for all athletes with maybe #11 being a gray area.

I don't see much wrong with 7 & 8 in moderation depending on what it is but I think if you allow any of 7 & 8 you are opening up the window to abuse which is why 7 & 8 should probably be excluded, of course 7 & 8 becomes a gray area whether you want it to or not because where is the line drawn between a natural healthy diet and performance enhancing drugs.

Well I'm no expert but that's my 2 cents.

Ryan

I don't use any of them.......probably should.

All of them should be legal cept maybe 14.........Power to the people.

#12 would have to be legal medications prescribed by Doctor, no backroom chemists.

#14 Noone elses blood should be in your body, so a big no on 14.

My jury is still out on #13.


I biggest thing that bothers me, is stuff that is illegal in competition you can buy at the local grocery store. If it is legal to buy it, it should be legal to take it.

PJ

[quote:7ddeab421b]If it is legal to buy it, it should be legal to take it.[/quote:7ddeab421b]

I hear your pain on this one PJ, and I think a heck of a lot of people would agree with you on this. Problem as I see it with this statement is it opens the door for a lot of backroom chemistry and sneaking things that are not illegal from a point of law (assuming competition rules are not typically law, which probably could & has been argued).

I have no trouble with the concept of Pros being kept to a higher standard, I think that's the way it should be. Now who & how that standard is set, governed, and enforced makes all the difference in the world.

Your very opinionated website Administrator

BIG NEWS!!!! Rasmussen kicked out of the tour and fired by Rabobank!!

[url]http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12944.0.html[/url]
 
"If you brake, you don't win." Racer Mario Cipollini

Well Ken I guess you were on the right track with this one earlier, he missed two random drug tests and lied about his where abouts. That will get you kicked out off your country teams, fired from your pro team, kicked out of the Tour, and rightfully so.

The good news to come out of all this is Contador, Evans, & Leipheimer are back in the game and unless something goes wrong there will be 2 Team Discovery guys on the podium, only question is what position they will be in. Not the way I'm sure they invisioned it going down, thou.

Ryan

It wasn't Rasmussen that tested positive, it was Cristian Moreni from Team Cofidis, which ironically is a French team.

-- Ken
 
"If you brake, you don't win." Racer Mario Cipollini

Yeah, I typed before I read, and then retyped. Nice to see a French team out to, maybe they are treating everyone equal these days.

[quote:0c3093dbb7]If it is legal to buy it, it should be legal to take it.[/quote:0c3093dbb7]

I am in agreement with PJ on this one. It makes little sense that you can purchase things at your local nutrition center that contain banned substances for various athletic sanctioning bodies. However, what is legal is strongly dependent on where you are. Perhaps what we need is a list of allowable substances ... then we require medical justification for use of things not on the list.

Chris

[quote:a269222506]Perhaps what we need is a list of allowable substances[/quote:a269222506]

This makes the most sense of all to me.

Ryan

"Perhaps what we need is a list of allowable substances .."

Isn't this what we really already have. They tell you what you can't do. By reason shouldn't you then be able to do every thing else?

I just heard this great quote on Face The Nation that could apply to many things but I think it is particularly pertinent here:

"Money and Fame doesn't improve Ethics"

Ryan